Author of spatial installations, multimedia, photography, and scenography. Paweł Dudko holds a PhD in Arts and MSc Eng in Architecture. In the years 2012-22, he was a researcher and lecturer at the Faculty of Architecture of the Białystok University of Technology.

His works have been exhibited in many galleries in Poland and abroad, i.a. Mark Rothko Art Centre (Daugavpils, Latvia), XX1 (Warsaw, Poland), Musée du Jouet (Moirans-en-Montagne, France), Yanaki Manasiev Gallery (Veliko Tyrnovo, Bulgaria), Gallery of Modern Art miejsce sztuki44 (Świnoujscie, Poland) and at many reviews and festivals, i.a. Dizaino Savaitė (Vilnius, Lithuania), Contested Cities conference (Madrid, Spain), The International Artistic Campus FAMA (Świnoujscie, Poland).

Scholarship holder of the Minister of Culture and National Heritage (2020) and the President of the City of Białystok (2015).

→ Pawel Dudko

The Generative Art Museum (TGAM): Hello ser! Thank you very much for joining us today. How are you?

Pawel Dudko (PD): Hello! I'm great! Thank you for the invitation!

TGAM: How did you first become interested in art? Can you share a bit about your journey and what led you to pursue a career as a digital and generative artist?

Pawel Dudko (PD):My interest in art has been with me for as long as I can remember. Photography was my primary passion, starting with a simple analog camera. However, it was a digital SLR that opened up a whole new world of possibilities for me. At the same time, I delved into graphic design software, using it to experiment with photography and photo manipulation.

After graduation, I became intrigued by the world of 3D printing. Initially, my focus was on designing three-dimensional objects and bringing them to life through printing. However, I quickly started to think about what would happen if these objects were designed by independently operating machines instead of humans. This sparked my fascination with generative art, around 2015. Equipped with a basic understanding of programming and algorithmic knowledge, I started learning the Processing environment to code generative three-dimensional objects for printing. While my idea of creating a machine that designs and produces objects never materialized, it led me to a point where I felt confident enough with my generative coding skills.

Then, in the year 2020, everything changed. I didn’t have access to my workshop and printers. During this time I discovered Art Blocks and the concept of generative art on the blockchain, which struck me as an incredible idea. So, I started experimenting even more with generative art.

TGAM: As a digital and generative artist, you explore both virtual and physical spaces. How do these two realms intersect in your creative process? How do you navigate the boundaries between the digital and physical worlds in your art?

PD: I believe my interest in the intersection of virtual and physical reality emerged from my architectural background. My studies in architecture and a decade of work at the faculty of architecture, brought my attention to the constant intertwining of these two realms. This experience also made me sensitive to the contextual nature of artistic work. I believe that every artwork exists within a specific context that can shape or alter its meaning.

When thinking of the navigation between digital and physical worlds, I view digital artwork not as an isolated object but as a phenomenon displayed on a device. For instance, when working on a piece intended for mobile devices, I consider its operation, perception, and scale in relation to human experience. Does the display itself carry additional meaning? I look for additional layers of meaning in the artwork within the context of its presentation.

As I began exploring mobile devices in my artistic process, I realized that they carry a lot of potential. These personal objects, constantly at hand, respond immediately to our actions. It came to me that a mobile device can serve as an aperture in physical reality, allowing us to glimpse another layer or an entirely different realm.

TGAM: What inspires you to create? Are there any particular themes, concepts, or emotions that you find yourself drawn to exploring in your artwork?

PD: In my practice, I find inspiration from two main sources. The first is impressions and experiences. When something captures my attention and fills me with awe, it sparks the idea of expressing it through generative art.

The second source of inspiration is the algorithm itself. I enjoy experimenting with my own code, engaging in what I call "code bashing." It involves tweaking variables and settings to achieve different effects. This process lays the groundwork for further exploration, leading to new discoveries. Even a single output can reveal something mesmerizing, serving as a solid foundation to build upon.

TGAM: In many of your projects the artwork responds to its environment or viewer. Could you share some specific examples or techniques you use to create interactive and responsive experiences?

PD: For me, integration of mobile phones into artistic practice was a discovery. Previously, I looked at them as practical and convenient devices. However, unveiling the artistic potential within these small devices has opened up a world of exploration. One of the main advantages is the ability to access artwork directly from a web browser, eliminating the need for an additional app. Simply visiting a website allows anyone to view and experience art firsthand.

In my artistic practice, I use WebXR in combination with Three.js libraries to create augmented reality experiences. This combination offers the convenience of managing 3D space with simplified commands, reducing the complexity of mathematical calculations. It also gives access to a scripting language that enables generative art, real-time manipulation, and creation.

And of course, I rely on custom scripts I've developed, which utilize the device's built-in hardware to detect its angle and position, influencing the artwork. This approach builds an immersive experience as the artwork becomes responsive and interactive

TGAM: As an artist with a Ph.D. in Art, how has your academic background influenced your artistic approach and conceptual thinking? How do you find the balance between theory and creativity in your work?

PD: My academic background had the greatest influence on my conceptual thinking about the medium. I pay close attention to the coherence of expression and the exploration of the "material," which, in my case, is the algorithm. I perceive digital artwork in a multilayered way. On one hand, there is the layer of code, the essence and source of the image we perceive. Then there is the image itself, the main and most obvious element of the artwork. However, despite its digital nature, it exists within a physical context that determines its reception. I strive to balance all these dimensions in my explorations.

Yet, I think that my academic background significantly shaped the way I express my ideas [laughter]. While my writing tends to be lengthy, it is also extremely synthetic, requiring careful attention to process and comprehend.

TGAM: Generative art has gained significant popularity across multiple blockchain platforms. How do you decide which chain or platform to release your generative art projects on? Are there specific considerations or criteria that influence your decision-making process?

PD: The way I see it is that every blockchain has unique merits and advantages. Ethereum and Bitcoin, for instance, require concise and efficient code if one intends to store it on-chain. It encourages artists to develop and master their coding skills. On the other hand, Tezos provides an excellent platform for complex and elaborate code-based artworks, making it ideal for experimentation. Its vibrant community, low fees, and wide accessibility create a wonderful environment for sharing ideas and artworks. It is a remarkable space for discovery, learning, growth, and cultivating relationships.

TGAM: You have released work on the Ordinal network. Could you share your thoughts on the concept of ordinals in art and what they represent to you? How do you see the relationship between NFTs and bitcoin in the context of the art world?

PD: The first time I heard about ordinals, it felt like the moment I discovered Art Blocks. The idea of storing an entire artwork entirely on-chain is fascinating. I absolutely love the concept of the artwork being a self-contained web page (HTML file), represented as code inscribed within the blockchain, which can be accessed and displayed at any time. Even if a centralized platform is down, the artwork remains preserved and accessible, as long as the blockchain itself exists. There’s just something both eternal and ephemeral in that idea.

TGAM: 3D printing is a medium that you enthusiastically embrace in your artistic practice. What fascinates you about this technology and how do you incorporate it into your artworks?

PD: Yes, it is! 3D printing is a fascinating medium! The first time I heard about it, it was advertised as a new technological revolution that would impact everyone. Like, if you wanted to send your grandma a present for her birthday, you could just send her the file and she would print it on her own 3D printer with a push of the button. However when I got access to the first 3D printer it turned out that the reality fell short of the big promises. The technology wasn't even as close to perfection as it was advertised.

What fascinated me the most was the initial ease of use of the technology and also the amount of failures and issues that these machines had. I decided to delve into the intricacies of the process, not only learning how to prepare a 3D model for printing but also understanding the inner workings of the printer itself, its construction, the controlling software, and the functionality of each component. It was a very rewarding journey that led to many conclusions about the root causes of issues and errors that occur during the printing process. I’ve found it immensely inspiring. They were like the brush strokes on a canvas, which we accept and embrace as an element of the process. In a similar way, I now approach 3D printing errors, seeing them as opportunities to explore their potential as a unique and expressive medium.

TGAM: How do you approach incorporating generative art into the realm of 3D printing? Are there any specific challenges or opportunities that arise when translating generative concepts into tangible, physical objects through this technology?

PD: My approach to 3D printing is strongly connected to the printing process itself, its characteristics, and nature. In the early attempts, I wasn't creating visual objects but rather generating G-code, which I could only visualize in an external software. Later I developed my skills and introduced basic graphical rendering into the program. However, I continued to experiment with creating spatial objects based on the layering rules of 3D printing. Essentially, my algorithm didn't create a 3D solid as described by 3D graphics; it consisted more of a set of commands sent to the device. Only after the print was complete I could verify the results, assess the accuracy of the code, and make adjustments accordingly.

TGAM: What was design and creation process for "Ingress"? Can you walk us through the steps involved in bringing this virtual space to life?

PD: “Ingress” was initially conceived as a virtual generative space that surrounds and immerses us. In the early stages of development, one could navigate through it using a computer interface, as if it was a virtual environment or a game. While this approach worked well on desktops, it was unintuitive and confusing on mobile devices. This led to the idea of utilizing the natural motion of the phone, resembling augmented or virtual reality. Device becomes an aperture through which we could view another world. Using augmented reality libraries seemed like an intuitive solution. However, technical limitations required a different approach. Therefore, I began working on my own script to fetch the device's orientation and adjust the displayed image accordingly.

At first glance, the task seems simple. Our phone rotates in three axes, and the displayed image should rotate accordingly. However, this solution is not ideal from a user experience perspective, as it introduces a lot of confusion. I think it might have been one of my greatest coding challenges to date: understanding the mathematical methods used to describe object rotation in three-dimensional space and integrating them with gyroscope data calculations.

TGAM: How do you see the relationship between the virtual space you've created in "Ingress" and the physical world? Is there a particular message or idea you're trying to convey through this juxtaposition of the virtual and the real?

PD: Experiencing "Ingress" on a smartphone gives me the feeling of holding in my hand a gateway to another reality, perhaps a parallel world. In modern mobile device design, the screen plays a crucial role. There is a strive to maximize its surface area, ensuring nothing disrupts our attention. When experiencing the immersive artwork, it feels as if a drawn object is placed within the physical space. This creates a rather surreal effect, reminiscent of movies from the 90s where animated cartoon characters coexist with live actors. I try to make my artworks universal, encouraging viewers to seek their own interpretations and allowing for intuitive exploration.

TGAM: How do you envision the future of immersive and interactive art experiences like "Ingress"? Are there any new technologies or developments that you are excited to explore in your future projects?

PD: I find this type of art highly intriguing. I believe that mobile devices hold great potential. The ability to create interactive experiences within a web browser, without the need for dedicated applications, is a significant game-changer. The art and the experience is at our fingertips (just one click away). No more worries about unknown app access to our device. This is a crucial shift! I’ll be exploring new ways to utilize the available tools, methods of interaction, and the device's possibility for creative interactions. Augmented reality is also really intriguing, if combined with generative art, it allows to create unique and personalized artworks.

TGAM: Your project "Gleam" experiments with blending lights and colors to create structures inspired by natural phenomena. Could you elaborate on the inspirations behind these natural phenomena and how they manifest in the artwork?

PD: Thank you for asking about "Gleam"! It is a very special project for me. It was created as an appreciation for those who supported me at the time when I decided to pursue art full-time.

"Gleam" is a continuation of my explorations that began in 2020. When I didn't have access to a workshop, I decided to revisit what has always fascinated me the most — the light as a source of the image. I believe this fascination originates directly from my photographic experience, primarily in analog photography and the hours spent in the darkroom. In many of my works, light plays a crucial role. Even in the earliest spatial installations such as "to disappear" or "Palimpsest", it becomes the source of both experience and imagery.

"Gleam" is highly abstract and does not rely on any representational elements. Yet, when I look at it, it immediately brings associations with landscapes, sky views, or flowing rivers. I did not refer to these phenomena with mathematical equations, yet they are vivid and persistently return to me.

TGAM: The Machine Creative installation aims to replicate the creative process from human-machine relation to machine-object creation. Can you explain the inspiration behind this concept and what you hope to explore or convey through this installation?

PD: Idea for "Machine Creative" emerged during the pandemic and lockdowns when institutions were inaccessible. Online events became a common thing and social media turned to an essential aspect of many people's lives. At this moment I came up with the idea to share the creative process from start to finish profiles and engage with the community in real-time. However, I was aware that such actions would have an impact on me. The openness of the process would surely influence my creative freedom and decision-making. I noticed a parallel here. On one hand, I would create an object that would generate subsequent objects, and on the other hand, through social media interactions, I would, to some extent, become a material myself. Perhaps less consciously, less directly, but nevertheless to a significant degree.

Now, all that was left was to find the formula for the "Machine." For a while, I had been thinking about codeless 3D printing. And that was precisely the element that tied the whole idea together. The device had only one technical program – to maintain the temperature of the nozzle and extrude the filament. Nothing more. Yet, what emerged from the "Machine" was unique. Each tiny object created is one-of-a-kind. I enjoy how slight changes and imperceptible imperfections lead to completely different outcomes. There’s also beauty in the process when the “Machine” extrudes filament that resembles a living creature, but that’s best seen on video or IRL.

Have I addressed your question? This project has given me much food for thought, and I could talk about it on and on, but I don't want to bore you :)

TGAM: Of course! Let’s jump now into your Responsive Dreams project, “re.flex.ions”, can you explain a bit more about the project and the concept behind it?

PD: "re.flex.ions" is a project specifically prepared for the Responsive Dreams exhibition. It represents further exploration into light as a source and essence of the image. It consists of hundreds of points distributed in space. Their positions are determined by two space-filling Sierpiński curves, which were discovered by Wacław Sierpiński, a Polish mathematician of the late 19th and 20th centuries, who referred to himself as an "explorer of infinity".

Fascinating associations arise when observing the various outputs. Some evoke a sense of cosmic scale, while others resemble microscopic images. There are also images that directly bring to mind medical imaging, such as PET or CT scans. And all these organic forms are discovered within an image generated by a strictly mathematical algorithm based on a geometric curve.

TGAM: By the way, it's really cool that the project name is a catalan word (reflexions) that literally means “thoughts”. With the exhibition being in Barcelona it makes a lot of sense!

PD: I didn’t know that! :) It really does make a lot of sense!

Now that you’ve mentioned it, one could relate the image as a visualization of neural activity. Electric impulses being sent and traveling on given paths to create a bigger image. That adds another possible layer to interpret it and meditate on the idea. Thank you for that!

TGAM: Could you describe the process you follow when creating a responsive artwork? How do you incorporate interactivity and adaptability into your pieces?

PD: I try for the live code to be responsive and adapt to display capabilities, ensuring that the output remains independent of screen size and proportions. From a technical standpoint, you need to make the parameters of the elements independent of the environment. This is a fundamental principle.

The next step involves testing on various devices. If the algorithm is computed and rendered in real-time, I want to ensure that everyone, regardless of their hardware, has a consistent experience. This requires additional effort, but it makes the work more universal and independent of display capabilities. Thanks to this, I can be confident that the reception is as I intended it to be, rather than being left to chance. On the other hand, it also provides room for expanding interpretations and rediscovering the artwork.

Referring to "re.flex.ions," we may more easily associate the image on a phone screen with a microscopic observation, while cosmic views unfold on a 60-inch display. Meanwhile, viewing the same image on a CRT monitor may evoke a sense of observing it through a glass pane from a safe distance.

TGAM: The concept of an artist or creator being replaced by a machine is not new, but it continues to raise questions about the nature of creativity. In your opinion, what role does the human element play in the creative process, even when machines are involved? How do you see the relationship between human intention and the machine's autonomous creation?

PD: Thank you for the question! I have encountered two opposing views, one stating that machines are merely tools in our hands, and the other suggesting that machines can completely replace and eliminate people from the process.

I believe my perspective is quite different. Instead of asking whether a machine can replace an artist, I would look for the potential for dialogue between humans and machines. I am aware that this viewpoint may be controversial, especially in the context of algorithmic generative art [laughter]. However, there is room for errors on both sides, which could lead to observation and drawing conclusions. The process of learning and reaching desired results begins to resemble a lengthy conversation, where we seek common language and understanding. If we stay open to unplanned experiences, we can benefit from serendipity and occasional erratic code execution, which becomes a source of new inspiration.

It is worth asking another question, paraphrasing the title of Philip K. Dick's novel – do androids dream? The advancements in machine learning in recent years have astounded us with their results and technical capabilities. However, the discourse surrounding AI leaves unanswered the question of whether a machine even needs creativity or art.

TGAM: Looking ahead, as a generative artist and innovator, where do you see the future of generative art heading? Are there any emerging technologies, techniques, or trends that you find particularly exciting or promising? And how do you envision your own role within this evolving landscape of generative art?

PD: I believe it is worth paying close attention to interactive art. It seems like a natural progression for artists with programming skills to seek a closer relationship with the audience, engage them in their work and make it more personal. Interactive art responds well to these needs, encouraging greater focus and connecting with the artwork. I think artists will explore various solutions in this realm, and I assume that they can succeed. In my opinion, interactive art will actively engage us and provide unique experiences.

Pawel Dudko is part of TGAM's Responsive Dreams Festival, the first generative art exhibition in Barcelona dedicated entirely to showcasing art created by code.

"re.flex.ions" will be minted live during 14/15th June at Nau Bostik, Barcelona. Holders of TGAM's brochures are elegible to mint preferentially.

The Generative Art Museum (TGAM) is a non-profit organization based in Barcelona dedicated to explore, promote, and advance the understanding and appreciation of generative art as a unique form of artistic expression.